from the library:
why are there potted plants all over the library? am i going to forget i'm inside, this isn't a foliage zoo. why don't they just put the plants outside and let them freeze, they aren't fooling me.
from the coffee shop:
feeling levity in moments of despair, sad songs that make you smile and you are at peace because you know everyone else is also a heartbroken failure, worse still are those who aren't, those who realize their dreams meant more when they were unfulfilled, now they know the let-down of a dream realized. i smile at despair because i feel most alive when i am the lowest, and smiling in such circumstances makes me feel absurd, and most days absurdity is the only genuine feeling left and the only word that still means what you think it does.
how do you deal with disappointment; when those you don't even know, but would like to, seem to let you down, your idols turn into blocks of wood and the world is a lesser place when you find out they are flawed, when you realize they are just like you.
maybe we feel like saving people sometimes because we want to be saved ourselves, and we think there is some personal redemptive quality in saving someone else, long since given up on being saved ourselves, whether we admit it to ourself or not, maybe if we're someone's savior then they'll get to feel that which we wish we could.
the girl across from me is staring out the window like she is waiting for someone, but she is slowly realizing that she will be alone tonite, so she looks with an empty gaze at the cars in the drive through and imagines that someone, anyone is coming to meet her. she has nowhere to be so she'll look out the window a while longer until she's finally tired of feeling stood up and leaves, her embarrassment and hurt will turn bitter.
32 comments:
Schopenhauer said it is evil that which is positive in life; positive in the sense that it’s what defines ones life, like rocks in a stream it’s the only thing that makes ripples, it’s the only real impression. Everything else is just the absence of evil. Kierkegaard said that everyone is in despair; most are just unaware of it because they live in the temporary world of the sensate; they never realize they're a spirit. He said that as one increases consciousness so he also increases his despair; conscious in the sense that he realizes the true nature of life. And it is only through despair that anyone finds God, until after much trial a man can ‘rest transparently in the power that established it.’ Despair; is there anything more real?
no. and yes.
...and God grant us that we would despair into hope.
I'm with Holly.
I don't really think that despair is any more real than any other human emotion.
I think that it might in some ways be the easiest emotion for some to feel. But to celebrate despair, to embrace it, seems a mistake. Especially for the Christian.
I suppose in one sense Kierkegaard's right about the proportion to consciousness and despair, but I might call what he calls despair "longing," i. e. our dissatisfaction with what is going on on earth. If by despair he means utter hopelessness, this is neither right nor good, if you are a Chistian. The non-Christian, of course, must rightly feel hopeless in their absolute helpless deficiency without Jesus.
I guess I'm unclear on whether Kierkegaard is extending his principle of consciousness = despair to engulf all people, or just those who should rightly feel hopeless.
And Schopenhauer's just wrong. I'm very sure that the world is not divided into evil vs. absence of evil. If this were true, Paul would have be wrong when he says that God is working all things for an ultimate good.
I tend to agree with Kierkegaard in that despair is realizing in a fallen world the only source of true rest is found in the intangible God. He disliked organized religion and the idea that one's reestablishing their relationship with their maker could be institutionalized and formulaic. Despair for him was simply the disunity in man as a result of a severed relation between man; a synthesis of spirit and conscious; possibility and actuality; finitude and infinitude; and between that which established man i.e. God. Basically man is a mess and the only cure is to probe the depths of your estranged spirit until you understand who you are in the eyes of God, but this is not accomplished through a prayer or week at church camp. He called faith a passion that was the task of the individual establishing himself above the universal or the ethical; it was a process which could not be mediated. I think there is a lot of value in what he said and I wouldn't call it embracing despair, maybe accepting it or ceasing to ignore it, but I also wouldn't say it is unchristian to embrace it. Probably most people just romanticize despair because that it's the truest feeling they ever feel.
I agree with Schopenhauer too in that life is defined more by that which is bad or painful rather than that which is pleasant or without pain. It seems it would be self defeating to say that life is positively defined by that which is painless. You don’t have to call it evil if you do not wish to, but as it stands the world is the perverted version of what is was intended to be.
ok Mr. Newton... who am I? where am I going? and why do I litter? precisely...if i didnt want people to know who i was i wouldnt have written down my intrests for all to see.
I like your poetry. y un pregunta... do you write from emotion or what you think people wanna know/hear?
Is it not by our own doing that we are formed by the negative things that occur in our life? Can't we also allow ourselves to be changed by the good? Isn't it subjective?
Well you are a troubadour on her way to the sinking state and you litter because it is your creative amusement. The only poems I write for other people are the ones I don't post here, and those usually involve smurfs and other such nonsensical subjects. All the poems I post here I wrote for myself, and usually months before I posted them, I just forget to post something so I find a poem I wrote that's not too personal and I post it. I'm always reading/writing poems and I occasionally post some, mostly because I enjoy reading Dempsen poems of any author and I thought it would be worth it if someone enjoys mine half as much as I like theirs. If you believe that I have emotions then I will say that’s what they are inspired by.
And to K- I will say that it seems that we don't decide what will have an impact on us, that which impacts us just does so without permission. You certainly have a choice as to how you want to interpret and react to that good/bad event, but I have reason to believe Schopenhauer when he said that our deepest hurts in life will always be more impressive than our truest joys. There is something to be said for the relativity of emotions and how one makes the other richer, but I haven't said it.
Dispare can become an idol for some. I am not saying it is for slightlee but as one increases their knowledge and understanding they also begin to realize that the world is a bitter place to live. To accept that fact is fine but to dwell on it is probably not healthy. Should we not think about the reason we are placed in the world and what the true value of a human is rather than to think of what a human is not worth? I know my views are simple and very uneducated and I am a clearly an optimist, so please forgive me. It seems strange to me though to apologize for some random thoughts that have entered my mind.
I can rememeber back to the truest pain I have felt and yes, I do recall it more vividely than any joy I have felt. I guess it is hard concept to think that some emotions are more powerful than others and it is by our choice or can be by our own choice to let them be more powerful. Even harder to contrive is the idea that we sometimes don't have control over what we feel. We like to think we always have constant control over our emotions but truth to be told sometimes we simply do not or cannot control them. Not that we are incapible of it but because we haven't the strength to remain apathetic all the time. Did that make any sense at all or am I rambling?
You're more of the Troubadour than I am. HA. How's you art history class thus far?
I think it's a scientific fact that pain/distress causes far more vivid memories than any occurance of extreme happiness or ecstacy. Why that is I can't tell you, other than to say it's how our brains physically operate. I can think of two different theories for this, both of which are probably bunk:
a) We remember pain/despair/distress far better because we are physically on a state of higher alert from perceived dangers.
b) We remember pain/despair/distress far better because things like that should not occur, and there's an element of surprise that burns themvividly into our memory when they do.
I'd have to say I think both are true. Happiness and ecstacy aren't remembered as well not because they're less real, but because they're expected, they're the way things should be, and when things are going as they should, we simply aren't paying attention.
Like I said, it's probably bunk. But it's too late to take it back now.
To Jesse,
I agree with what you say about happiness being more expected. That makes perfect sense to me. Much more sense than what I was trying to say earlier.
Well. A lot of thought is being expressed here....I'm just wondering. Should happiness be expected more than pain? Of what, after all, does most of life consist? Mostly of the mundane, nothing to elicit any extreme emotion. Who hasn't experienced some pain during his lifetime? How often is anyone truly happy? What we expect, I think, is for everything always to continue as it always has, and not to experience anything towards either extreme. And I think there are few situations that could result in such extreme joy as to be highly memorable, except those we experience as children...somehow as children we are more excited about smaller things, probably becasue we are first experiencing them....but I digress. I think I was going to say that there are many more opportunities in this life for extreme pain. For instance, loss of anything or anyone brings pain. Why? Because we expect what we have to remain, we expect things to continue this way even if we're not particularly happy. Injury to oneself or a loved one brings pain. Disappointment brings pain, in this case because of the loss of some hoped-for happiness, something more than the ordinary. Perhaps because there are more opportunities for the negative emotions, and because, as with any pain, the mind focuses on the area that is hurt and keeps everything else in the background. I doubt the same thing is true of joy.
And thanks to slightlee for his comment about the Dempsens. Speaking for myself, we're honored. And I do enjoy reading your works.
Good points, Holly!
I am very impressed with how well you express yourself. I am in a constant state of being educated when I speak with you, slightlee, Jesse, and everyone else. Very interesting topics and I can't help but enjoy learning from you all, thanks!
I think that the reason that I stated that pain is unexpected is because I think that we all recognize that pain shouldn't exist. Perhaps that's a better way of stating it: yes, pain is expected, but we recognize the fact that it isn't right or natural in that it's not how things are supposed to be.
So I think that, at some level, there is a shock that come from pain that causes its effect to be heightened: we recognize that things should not be this way, that hurt and despair aren't good, and we are shocked into a heightened sense of awareness that such pain and despair exists, even within ourselves.
Still tagging this with a disclaimer in case I decide to recant,
Jesse
Do we have a right to expect happiness? Do we deserve it?
we are scarred by pain that's why...it leaves a dark mark on our hearts, it's a chain reaction: something bad happens, we cry, we dwell, we anylize, we over anylize, we replay, and then we try to forget. But it just keeps coming up. the thought of what happened (whatever it is) can be triggered by anything as well, sight of something, seeing someone, hearing a song, smelling a scent, etc.
Happiness just happens we don't anylize our happiness... we don't go through the steps of what hapened to make us feel that way. so it is not as deeply imprinted upon us. Yet, just like dispair it can be recalled by a familiar person/place/thing.
Why don't we analyze our happiness though? We should, I believe. I think if we did it would be a great advantage to us. I suppose it goes back to us as humans believing we have a right to be happy or -- beg pardon-- feeling we have a right to expect a unchanging existance.
but we strive for happiness.... it doesnt make sense to strive for pain...(if you do i think maybe you should be checking into a mental health facility.) we strive for that ultimate goal of living well and happy...and in the end we weigh the good against the bad and in the end people usually remember all the good times they had all the good things that happened and so on. i guess it all comes down to how depressed you are.
Your ideas are interesting Jess, I don't think I’m quite enough of a materialist to agree much beyond a 'could be,' I think despair is much more than a physiological phenomena. I appreciate how you HSD articulated your point; I think I agree with it. I also wouldn't say that people in general idolize or embrace despair, I think said people just stop ignoring the only color they see the world being painted with. You need not apologize for having random thoughts, maybe for being an optimist, but not for being someone who thinks.
I don't know if expecting and analyzing happiness is relevant, but what did strike me as important was the idea how we receive pleasure and pain; I use all positives and negatives interchangeably referring to the same general dichotomy. Not wanting to universalize, it seems more often then not that intense happiness is always eventually pregnant with the fear and expectation of losing that feeling; you know it will pass and the only direction is down, it's just a matter of time. But the opposite is not necessarily true, it seems like one can be deeply depressed their whole life and not expect the opposite sentiment. They might eventually arrive at some complacent apathy or denial, but they don't necessarily expect a euphoric turn-around. We would all hope for the happiness to come, but I could live in a world where I was perpetually depressed and the world would still make as much sense as it does now. That leads me to think that happiness is the exception to the rule, unless it is a product of ignorance; which we should all hope for, but we can't devolve, and I am digressing...this is what Kierkegaard and Solomon were saying, consciousness has a direct relationship to despair. But I don't think we should run from understanding or suppress our negative emotions, I know for myself the last thing I can do when I am faced with an intellectual struggle is ignore it, or drop it, I can only hope that there is land on the other side in the sea of questions and doubts, and that it will have made the journey worth the while, the only other option is to drown in my own cowardice of intellect.
I am assuming here that someone will take up the cause to prove that happiness is not the exception.
I think, Slightlee, you have a point in what you say for the most part. To use an old saying "what goes up must come down". I am refering to one's emotions. I think you are right that no one person is perpetually happy. I know I am certainly not although some people might assume so. I, in fact, think that the people who rise so high in their own state of being happy sometimes have a longer distance to fall when they are deing depressed, or so it feels like it when I am depressed. Or maybe I have come to the understanding that life cannot always be happy and am depressed about that. I am unfortuantly, one of those people who had thought they knew how to handle stress but only to find out that it has made its own way to find an escape. I tend to do such things as swallow air, throw-up and most recently get a bloody noses. This is all due, pressumably, to the way I deal with my depression and stress. I still strongly believe that thinking positively is helpful and given some more time to consider my thoughts on the matter will be able to come with a more supportive arguement.
Atually, maybe you should create a new post about something, anything, to distract us all from this one. Not that I am not enjoying this conversation because I am. It is enlightlening. Anyways...
Hey! Joy is my middle name -- seriously, it is! Now that was completely random!
Can we not be sad and joyful at the same time? We can be upset about something but still praising God. I believe it is in James where it says, "Count it all joy my brothers, when you fall into trials and temptations for the testing of your faith pruduces perserverance." I have a slight feeling that I am off track somewhere but just cannot place my finger on it, in my hypothesis not the verse.
You've convinced me, Ty. What I was saying was mostly crap. :)
I think you're spot on about happiness being the exception to the rule. But I think there's that element in us that recognizes, by virtue of the fact that we hope for happiness, that recognizes that despair ain't right.
I guess I'm trying to process for myself what exactly it is that makes happiness/joy a much more real concept than despair. Because I believe it is. I think all of reality is meant to be pointing us to joy. How to articulate why I think so, beyond just making that assertion, I'm not quite sure how to do.
Let me go back to square one and try again.
Despair/pain is a result of a) being hurt, b) seeing others being hurt, and c) feeling powerless to do anything to prevent either one from occuring.
Happiness is a result of a) being at rest, b) seeing others we care about at rest, and c) knowing that things are in some way how they should be, that what is happening is right and good.
Things here, however, are not as they should be; therefore, the universe is naturally bent towards despair. And, as you said, Ty, every bit of happiness is tainted with the realization that it will end.
I don't know if I'm going anywhere with this. What I want to say is that unless you're a hedonist, there's a right and a wrong associated with pleasure and pain. There's a sense in which we see pain, and the things that cause it, as evil, and pleasure, and the things that cause it, as good. Of course, this whole system is more complex in that your own personal pleasure can come at the expense of someone else's pain, but by and large, this is the system of morality that we have. (And for those of you who might think I'm advocating an "if-it-feels-good-do-it" system, don't. I'm not.) So, I think that humankind recognizes that happiness is the way things should be, but despairs in that pain dominates life as we know it, and they can't stop this from happening.
So...I think my point is: despair's not more real than anything else, it's just the more natural response of a corrupt entity in a corrupt world. But for the one who is seeking to overcome the corruption, the rejection of despair should be among the tasks they perform.
aha... Jesse and Ty is smart!
Jesse, I love the comment you made: "...despair's not more real than anything else, it's just the more natural response of a corrupt entity in a corrupt world." That is interesting. I still have to think about all of this some more. It takes me a while to process stuff like this.
Oh you said it, happiness is peace and seeing others at peace...how true, happiness is the negative definition, it is the absence of despair, that nothingness of smiles, sounds a lot like apathy. My words not yours I know, but I like the sound of them.
Allow me to pervert your meaning so that it will fit mine: happiness is only the lack of something, peace certainly is only the empty feeling, so how is it more real if it's only a negative term? The happiest of children are the innocent ones, again, those who exist in the absence of pain and depravity (or the extremely selfish ones who are continually indulged). I'm going to stick with despair as being more real, at least in this world, and believe that happiness is a form of apathy. You could say that happiness is a positive we seek in actual things, but perhaps those are more often distractions (hedonists) with ephemeral results, the only lasting peace is that of indifference, or self imposed ignorance, which is the same thing. Me and my apathetic propaganda. You know what I am talking about, why do you smile so much and feel happy when you are with her, because you love her sure, but because what you call love makes you forget all the things that depress you.
A temporary distraction...or gratitude for a blessing? I'm about to contradict myself, I think. I don't know whether my mind has changed since my former statement, or merely my state of mind. Let me ask you...do you believe the peace of God to be apathy? I believe it is not the absence of despair, but the presence of hope within it, the promise of something better on the other side of pain (Never mind that hope and despair are mutually exclusive, and that despair is defined by any dictionary as the absence of hope, or insofar as I have found-- its etymology partially "from L. desperare 'to despair,' from de- 'without' + sperare 'to hope,'" ). I want to ask whether you believe there is virtue in hoping--or not virtue, perhaps, but use? And should there not be joy in knowing there is hope? And do not some things on this earth remind us of this hope--does not love and its little accompanying delights come as a gift and a blessing and a pleasure that makes us stronger to pursue hope and cling to it, that we may not let go and accept its antithesis? I do not deny the reality of the absence of hope. But I could not live when I was there. I cannot live when I am there. I felt as though I was dying every day, every day walking more slowly with my face ever closer to the dirt and a heavy stone on my back and another in my breast. Only a Savior can save. What He gives us is mercy, grace, hope. That much is undeserved, and everything beyond that also an undeserved blessing. We are indeed in danger of forgetting reality if we should become apathetic about such things. Joy and hope are to be pursued, not taken for granted. They are not the rule in this place, but are we not set free from the rule of this place? Is it not true that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace....? I don't claim to live that way. I only say that is the way I should live, as one who has been set free. But I love my chains sometimes as much as I hate them. They excuse me. I can say that "all is vanity" and despair of doing good.
Hmm. This is perhaps becoming too much of a discussion for a blog. I'm afraid your post is getting a lot of unrelated comments. :) But I guess it will keep up as long as you don't mind and everyone else wants to continue.
Is not hope, the promise of future blessings, the second life of joy, is not that only a diversion to the acknowledged present pain? Why must we cling to hope? Isn't joy in pain is anticipation of things future? I agree with you HSD, there is virtue in hope, but hope is also a longing for the absence of present circumstances, it is a negative term, it serves to acknowledge that this life is corrupt and we need a second existence to validate this one. Hope too seems like an escape from reality, why must I hope for the future unless I have already given up and the present? I do not praise despair or revel in it, I don't think happiness and hope are false or undesirable feelings, and I rather enjoy the peace of apathy. The hope of God is a distraction, joy is in the context of looking past this world, biblical joy focuses on that which is beyond this world and peace is ignoring the corruptions of the world one has given up on. My point is that peace/hope/happiness are negative terms; they describe the lack of what currently presents itself to us in this world; most likely they'll be that which is the only reality in the next life, but for here and now they are the absence of reality, or the anticipation of future reality, so that's why I say they are less real. Arguing from a strictly biblical perspective seems too abstract, I think one must appeal to life in order to paint the complete picture, and if all your colors are grey then you live with it, or project some color that you know really isn't there.
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